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		<title>Thoughts on Old Testament Violence</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/thoughts-on-old-testament-violence/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical interpretation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible reading]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Old Testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[violence]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Old Testament violence]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Cain kills Abel and the violence begins. There is, of course, more than violence in the Old Testament. Never the less, there&#8217;s no two ways about it, there&#8217;s a lot of violence in the Old Testament.  You may have heard people contrast the violent, vengeful god of the Old Testament with the loving God of [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2139&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 280px"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Death_of_Abel.png"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured " title="Death of Abel (engraving by Gustave Doré from ..." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/41/Death_of_Abel.png/300px-Death_of_Abel.png" alt="Death of Abel (engraving by Gustave Doré from ..." width="270" height="340" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image via Wikipedia</p></div>
<p>Cain kills Abel and the violence begins. There is, of course, more than violence in the Old Testament. Never the less, there&#8217;s no two ways about it, there&#8217;s a lot of violence in the Old Testament.  You may have heard people contrast the violent, vengeful god of the Old Testament with the loving God of the New Testament. The contrast is over simplified but the Old Testament is violent enough for one to understand that perception and the questions such violence raises.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a complete answer to the &#8216;problem&#8217; of violence in the Old Testament. I do have a response to offer. It is a partial response, but perhaps together we can arrive at a more complete response.</p>
<p>Understanding the Bible as &#8220;story&#8221; helps to provide a framework for reading and interpreting the Bible. When I use the word &#8220;story&#8221; I don&#8217;t mean &#8220;fiction&#8221; or even &#8220;non fiction&#8221;. The Biblical story is true in a way that is deeper and more real and more complex than the simple categories of &#8220;fiction&#8221; or &#8220;non fiction&#8221;. Story is a helpful concept for us. A story has a beginning, middle and end. A story is about something. The Bible is God&#8217;s revelation of God&#8217;s self to us. The written Word that points us to the living Word.  Through the Biblical story we learn the story of God at work in the world, at work in history, at work in and through human beings.  It is also the story of our unfolding understanding of who God is. God is telling us who God is by how God interacts in the world and human history and we  (and this includes the writers of the Bible) are trying to understand what we have seen, heard and experienced.</p>
<p>How does this help us make sense of the violence in the Old Testament?  Honestly? It makes things more difficult. We can&#8217;t simply say something along the lines of, &#8220;God told Joshua to wage war, so God approves of, at least some, wars.&#8221;  Understanding the Old Testament as part of a larger story of God at work in the world raises questions about the ways God is at work in the world. Does God work through flawed humans and flawed cultures? If so, does that imply God&#8217;s endorsement of the culture and its systems? We also have to ask ourselves how much of the story has been shaped by the limits of the humans who first received the story?</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t a new approach, we&#8217;ve done this with other issues. God gives Israel rules concerning slavery. Does that mean God approves of slavery? Not too many of us are willing to make that claim. Many of us would be more comfortable thinking that God was working within flawed human institutions, making them more humane with the ultimate goal of redeeming them. In the case of slavery, its redemption  means it&#8217;s abolition.</p>
<p>Polygamy is another example. Polygamy is obviously present in the Old Testament. But even those, perhaps especially those,  who look to the Scripture for a &#8220;Biblical model of marriage&#8221; don&#8217;t suggest that polygamy is God&#8217;s ideal. We recognize that the cultural and societal norms of the time influenced the actions of ancient people. And the practices of ancient people are not necessarily normative for us.</p>
<p>I think the same reasoning can help us as we confront the violence in the Old Testament. <a title="A History of Violence" href="http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html" target="_blank">Scholars</a> tell us that over the long course of history, humankind has become less violent. Are we moving toward God&#8217;s ideal? And can we acknowledge our history of violence without using it as a warrant for violence in our times?</p>
<p>It also helps to take the long view. When we look at the violence in the Old Testament, what we see is that it didn&#8217;t work. All the fighting on God&#8217;s behalf didn&#8217;t establish God&#8217;s kingdom on earth. People might have been trying to establish God&#8217;s kingdom. They might have believed they were fighting God&#8217;s fight on God&#8217;s behalf. But when the fighting was over and it was time to rule as God&#8217;s agents, it wasn&#8217;t God&#8217;s rule that happened. Old Testament warriors may have won battles but they didn&#8217;t win the war.</p>
<p>When we read the Bible as story, that practice helps us realize that what was culturally normal or appropriate in the Ancient Near East does not have to be made normal or appropriate or palatable for us. We are not called to live Joshua&#8217;s way in Joshua&#8217;s world. Or David&#8217;s way. Or the way of any Old Testament leader. That is not the part of the story we inhabit. We are followers of the risen Christ.  What is to be normal and appropriate for us is not based on Joshua, or Moses, or Abraham, or David, but rather Jesus. Can we learn things, important things about God and humans from reading the Old Testament?  Of course. But our benchmark for behavior, the way we live in the world is Jesus. The world is different since the resurrection.  We are called into a new world, a new way of being.</p>
<p>We may still wrestle with the question of whether the violence in the Old Testament was God&#8217;s will at that time. But we can know, because we know Jesus, that it is not God&#8217;s will for our time.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/bible/'>Bible</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/christianity/'>Christianity</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/bible-reading/'>Bible reading</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/biblical-interpretation/'>Biblical interpretation</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/christianity/'>Christianity</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/god/'>God</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/old-testament/'>Old Testament</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/old-testament-violence/'>Old Testament violence</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/violence/'>violence</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2139/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2139&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Statement of Faith</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/statement-of-faith/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2012/01/07/statement-of-faith/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 19:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirituality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Apostle's Creed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[statement of faith. statement of belief]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Last week a reader asked me about my &#8220;essential faith beliefs&#8221;.  Some blogs and websites will have some sort of statement of faith as part of their site. When I began this blog, I thought about whether to do that or not. I decided not to- not because I don&#8217;t know what I believe, but [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2131&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last week a reader asked me about my &#8220;essential faith beliefs&#8221;.  Some blogs and websites will have some sort of statement of faith as part of their site. When I began this blog, I thought about whether to do that or not. I decided not to- not because I don&#8217;t know what I believe, but because of what I hoped this blog would be and do.</p>
<p>I assume when churches, bloggers, and other religious groups post their statement of faith, they are doing that with good and honorable intentions. I assume they want  to be clear about some very important ideas and concepts. They do not want their readers to be confused or mistaken about what they believe. Transparency has become a sort of buzz word these days, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s not a good thing.  No tricks, no traps, no games. They are being as clear as they can be. There is value in doing that.</p>
<p>But I didn&#8217;t do that. Not because I&#8217;m trying to be tricky or play games but, in part, because of my response when I read statements of faith.  It&#8217;s probably just me, but when I read a statement of faith on-line I feel like it sets boundaries &#8211; a fence &#8211; around the site. It seems to me to be a list of the acceptable views for our readers. Now again, I don&#8217;t think that is the author&#8217;s intention. But that is how I &#8211; right or wrong- read it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that I am against statements of faith- I&#8217;ve written my share of them for various reasons. But I did not, and do not, want anyone to feel that they are not welcome here. I&#8217;m not so concerned with correct doctrine as I am with creating a place for thoughtful conversation. Since I don&#8217;t get a lot of comments here, I&#8217;m not sure I have been successful.</p>
<p>Having said all this. I do think it is a good idea for all of us to write a statement of faith from time to time. We ought to do it more than once, because our faith ought to grow and mature and change. I hope what I know about God and believe about God has grown and changed over the years.</p>
<p>The difficulty with writing a statement of faith is what to include and what to leave out. The Triune God would seem to be a given topic. But then what? Salvation? Evangelism? the role and purpose of the church? The Bible? Eschatology? If you are not careful pretty soon you&#8217;ve got  your version of  <em>The Institutes of the Christian Religion. </em></p>
<p>Then there is the problem of language, do I use Christian shorthand? (aka jargon?) I already used  quite a bit in the previous paragraph. On the one hand, its helpful not to have to explain every concept. One the other hand, when I write the word &#8220;salvation&#8221;, are you and I thinking about the same thing? Maybe not. If I write that I am a Christian in the reformed tradition, that&#8217;s true. But I don&#8217;t want you to put me in the same league as the &#8220;New Calvinists&#8221;. Please. Don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>So where do I begin with a statement of faith?  With the Apostle&#8217;s Creed.</p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:xx-small;"><strong><br />
</strong></span></p>
<p>I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:</p>
<p>And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:</p>
<p>Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:</p>
<p>Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:</p>
<p>The third day he rose again from the dead:</p>
<p>He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:</p>
<p>From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:</p>
<p>I believe in the Holy Ghost:</p>
<p>I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:</p>
<p>The forgiveness of sins:</p>
<p>The resurrection of the body:</p>
<p>And the life everlasting. Amen.</p>
<p>There are other things, many other things, I could say about what I believe, things about the Bible, the church, salvation, the nature of God, the work of Christ and on and on.  But, for me, this is the place I start.</p>
<p>Although, it occurs to me that  &#8221;God is love&#8221; may be all the statement of faith any of us need.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to know, what do you think?</p>
<div class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:StJohnsAshfield_StainedGlass_GoodShepherd_Face.jpg"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured" title="Stained glass at St John the Baptist's Anglica..." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/StJohnsAshfield_StainedGlass_GoodShepherd_Face.jpg/300px-StJohnsAshfield_StainedGlass_GoodShepherd_Face.jpg" alt="Stained glass at St John the Baptist's Anglica..." width="300" height="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image via Wikipedia</p></div>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/christianity/'>Christianity</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/religion/'>religion</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/spirituality/'>Spirituality</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/apostles-creed/'>Apostle's Creed</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/statement-of-faith-statement-of-belief/'>statement of faith. statement of belief</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2131/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2131&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Breaking Hearts and Birthdays</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/breaking-hearts-and-birthdays/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/breaking-hearts-and-birthdays/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Human]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[birthday]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God's love]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hesed]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[love]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[My oldest child turns 18 today. Because, like most 18-year-old young men he doesn’t want his mother publicly talking about him, I’ll save my personal comments for Facebook. (just kidding son). Begin pregnant during Advent and giving birth between Christmas and Epiphany does, for the theologically inclined, cause one to think about love- particularly a [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2123&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My oldest child turns 18 today. Because, like most 18-year-old young men he doesn’t want his mother publicly talking about him, I’ll save my personal comments for Facebook. (just kidding son).</p>
<p>Begin pregnant during Advent and giving birth between Christmas and Epiphany does, for the theologically inclined, cause one to think about love- particularly a parent’s love for their child and God’s love for us.</p>
<p>We can, of course, talk about ‘love’ as a concept and an emotion and as a state of being. But until we speak (and experience) love in particular embodied  ways the subject remains abstract.</p>
<p>The moment a child realizes their parents love them, rather than taking that love for granted, is an important step in understanding and recognizing love.</p>
<p>Falling in love opens one to a particular dimension of what it means to be human.</p>
<p>And becoming a mother ushered me into a transformational kind of love. Ushered isn’t exactly the right word. Blindsided comes closer to the reality of it. I love my parents. I love my brother. I love my husband. I love my friends. I love my cats.  But the love I have for my children is in a category of its own.</p>
<p>Because I have children, I now understand God’s love for us in a completely different way. I had and have a great father. But the biblical language of ‘father’  took on new depth and meaning when I became a mother.</p>
<p>With motherhood, I caught a glimpse of what God feels. Because I have hopes and dreams for my sons, I understand God’s hopes and dreams for us.</p>
<p>The Hebrew word, <em>hesed, </em>steadfast love. Now I know what that is. Not that I can explain it. But I know it. I’ve experienced it.</p>
<p>When Jesus longs to gather Jerusalem into his arms, as a mother hen gathers her chicks. I nod in recognition. I know the desire to keep my sons safe and the ache that comes with the knowledge that I can’t keep them completely safe. The tears Jesus weeps are tears I have wept.</p>
<p>When Paul writes nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ. I know a little something about love that nothing can end, nothing can stop.</p>
<p>I most certainly don’t mean to suggest that people without children don’t know or experience love, especially God’s love, in true and life-giving ways. People can and do. And I certainly don’t mean to suggest that I have had a unique or special experience.  I wouldn’t be surprised at all if most people understand all this without having children. In fact, I’m quiet sure I have been ( and continue to be) slower than most in figuring this out.</p>
<p>But for me, my experience of love became wider and deeper and more intense when my sons were born.  So Happy Birthday, oldest son. Thank you for breaking my heart open in the best way possible.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/human/'>Human</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/birthday/'>birthday</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/gods-love/'>God's love</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/hesed/'>hesed</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/love/'>love</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2123/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2123&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The End,The Beginning.</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/23/the-endthe-beginning/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/23/the-endthe-beginning/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 18:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[gospel of matthew]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Luke]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nativity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[truth]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/?p=2118</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Over the next few days Christians will be reading and listening to some well-known Bible stories. Some will hear these stories and wonder, Did this really happen? How can this be true? virgin births, moving stars, angels, magi…. Friends, this Christmas season let me suggest something. Don’t worry about the question, did it happen? Ask [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2118&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://conversationinfaith.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/332px-adoracic3b3n_de_los_pastores_28mac3adno29.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-2120" title="332px-Adoraci%C3%B3n_de_los_pastores_%28Ma%C3%ADno%29" src="http://conversationinfaith.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/332px-adoracic3b3n_de_los_pastores_28mac3adno29.jpg?w=166&#038;h=300" alt="" width="166" height="300" /></a>Over the next few days Christians will be reading and listening to some well-known Bible stories. Some will hear these stories and wonder, Did this really happen? How can this be true? virgin births, moving stars, angels, magi….</p>
<p>Friends, this Christmas season let me suggest something. Don’t worry about the question, did it happen?</p>
<p>Ask yourself, why do we have <em>this story?</em> What is Luke or Matthew trying to tell us?</p>
<p>And remember the Truth is more than mere facts.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Blessed Christmas to you all.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Over the past several Advents and Christmases I have reflected on many aspects of the Christmas story. (search the “archives” using Christmas, Nativity, Luke, Matthew, etc. to find them- if you wish)</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/bible/'>Bible</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/christianity/'>Christianity</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/jesus/'>Jesus</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/christmas/'>christmas</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/gospel-of-matthew/'>gospel of matthew</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/luke/'>Luke</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/nativity/'>nativity</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/truth/'>truth</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2118/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2118&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Biblical Contradictions</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/biblical-contradictions/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/biblical-contradictions/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible contradictions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical interpretation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Internal consistency of the Bible]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/?p=2114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What do we do when the Bible contradicts itself? For example, when Paul gives conflicting advise about dealing with difficult people in the church ( see this post and comments ). Or discrepancies about the number of animals Noah takes on the Ark. Or differences in the gospels about Jesus birth and death. If you “Google” [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2114&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 307px"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bible_1.png"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured" title="Noah carrying a stack of animals in Noah's Ark." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ad/Bible_1.png" alt="Noah carrying a stack of animals in Noah's Ark." width="297" height="269" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image via Wikipedia</p></div>
<p>What do we do when the Bible contradicts itself? For example, when Paul gives conflicting advise about dealing with difficult people in the church ( see this<a title="treat them like gentiles and tax collectors" href="http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/treat-them-like-gentiles-and-tax-collectors/" target="_blank"> post and comments </a>). Or discrepancies about the number of animals Noah takes on the Ark. Or differences in the gospels about Jesus birth and death.</p>
<p>If you “Google” “Bible contradictions” you will find some folks have spent a lot of effort chronicling discrepancies and contradictions. You will also find a lot of folks who have spent a lot of effort reconciling those contradictions.</p>
<p>There are, as far as I can tell, two main responses to Biblical contradictions,</p>
<ul>
<li>They don’t really exist and because there are no contradictions we can trust the Bible</li>
<li>They do exist and thus because there are contradictions we cannot trust the Bible</li>
</ul>
<p>To be sure, many of the contradictions do  “disappear” if one is willing to accept that ancient people viewed the world differently than we do and their writing of history and literature used different criteria and standards than we do.</p>
<p>However, we can’t- without engaging in significant interpretive gymnastics- resolve every contradiction.</p>
<p>I would like to propose a third option, Some contradictions exist, never the less, we can trust the Bible.</p>
<p>Actually, I think the contradictions are part of why we can trust the Bible.</p>
<p>The Bible is the story, the true story, of God’s relationship with humans. It’s a messy story, of people who are faithful, and people who miss the mark. It’s a story told collaboratively by God and people of imperfect people trying to follow God’s leading in imperfect ways. And it is a story told by many people, from many perspectives, using many genres, over long periods of time. It’s a story full of faith and doubt, questions and trust.</p>
<p>God reveals Gods self to us through the lives and actions and words of people. The people of the Bible lived in particular times and places, who had a particular culture, with it’s particular assumptions and biases. Faithful and not so faithful people trying to understand God through their particular experiences.</p>
<p>Our different human experiences of God are captured in the variety of the biblical text. God is present. God is absent. God is love. God is judge. God is predictable. God is unpredictable. God is known. God is unknowable mystery.</p>
<p>It’s all there, all our experiences of God present in the these old stories. Is it confusing? Sometimes. Messy? Often. Contradictory experiences and perceptions?  Contradictions abound but God is present. It is Truth beyond facts. Mystery comes close to us.</p>
<p>We humans like to make sense of things. We can’t help it, we look for it, we seek it out. Our desire to understand is one of the best things about us. We should try to understand the Biblical text to the best of our abilities.</p>
<p>But we also have to remember, we see only in part. Dimly. Glimpses. Hints. We are often perplexed and confused, but never, never alone.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/bible/'>Bible</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/bible/'>Bible</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/bible-contradictions/'>Bible contradictions</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/biblical-interpretation/'>Biblical interpretation</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/christianity/'>Christianity</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/internal-consistency-of-the-bible/'>Internal consistency of the Bible</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2114/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2114&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<media:title type="html">Noah carrying a stack of animals in Noah&#039;s Ark.</media:title>
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		<title>advent</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/advent/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/advent/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Dec 2011 17:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirituality]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[advent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christmas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[liturgical year]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/?p=2108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More and more Protestants are celebrating Advent, and that is a good thing. Advent is a season of the church year that leads up to Christmas. You can read more about Advent here and here. People celebrate Advent during worship at church and also with devotions in their homes. Often people talk about Advent as [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2108&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GaudeteIncipit.jpg"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured" title="English: Incipit of the Gregorian chant introi..." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/GaudeteIncipit.jpg/300px-GaudeteIncipit.jpg" alt="English: Incipit of the Gregorian chant introi..." width="300" height="56" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image via Wikipedia</p></div>
<p>More and more Protestants are celebrating Advent, and that is a good thing. Advent is a season of the church year that leads up to Christmas. You can read more about Advent <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advent" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.crivoice.org/cyadvent.html" target="_blank">here</a>. People celebrate Advent during worship at church and also with devotions in their homes. Often people talk about Advent as a season of preparation and waiting, and that’s correct. Often people talk about Advent as a way to disentangle the sacred from the secular during the holidays, and that’s correct. Often people talk about Advent as a way to simplify and focus their lives during a busy season, and that’s correct.</p>
<p>But… Advent is also a time for some serious theological reflection. Advent is both remembrance of the virgin birth and the incarnation, and also the anticipation of the return of the resurrected Christ and the resurrection of us all. The <a href="http://gamc.pcusa.org/devotion/revised-common-lectionary/2011/12/11/" target="_blank">Lectionary readings for Advent</a> help orient us to Advent as they also disorient us for Advent.</p>
<p>We are preparing and waiting, not simply for the baby Jesus, but for the return of the Risen Christ. The One who comes to set the world right.</p>
<p>We disentangle ourselves from those things that separate us from participating in  love, justice, mercy, forgiveness, reconciliation-the gospel of Jesus.</p>
<p>We simplify and focus on what matters most, to love God with all our hearts and all our soul and all our strength and all our mind; and to love our neighbor as ourselves.</p>
<p>Advent as a season of reflection, reorients and disorients. We look around us and see a world that needs God’s saving love. We look around us and we see acts of love and care that make God’s kingdom  a reality in our present world.</p>
<p>Advent is a season of oddness for the church. Advent is preparation for the  impossible becoming possible.</p>
<p>No wonder we get sidetracked by Santa and shopping. That’s much easier to understand and to do.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>+++++++++</p>
<p>If you are interested in reading the New Testament during 2012, check out <a title="westminster reads" href="www.westminsterreads.org" target="_blank">Westminster Reads</a>. If you are near Grand Rapids MI, you are welcome to join us for in person meetings. I you are too far away, join us on-line as we read and discuss the New Testament. We also have some suggestions for study Bibles, commentaries, and dictionaries (great Christmas gifts, right?) Westminster Reads is also on<a title="Westminster Reads on Facebook" href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Westminster-Reads/149378275170361?sk=wall" target="_blank"> Facebook </a>and you can join us there also.</p>
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		<title>Physics and Faith</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/physics-and-faith/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/physics-and-faith/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 23:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science and Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[JBS Haldane]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Neil DeGrasse Tyson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[science and religion. quantum mechanics]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[One of the things people say about Christianity is that Christians believe odd, impossible things. And well, they’re right. We do. Virgin birth. A being who is both God and human. The existence of miracles. The resurrection. That’s just off the top of my head. If we thought more about it, I’m sure we could [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2102&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things people say about Christianity is that Christians believe odd, impossible things. And well, they’re right. We do.</p>
<p>Virgin birth.</p>
<p>A being who is both God and human.</p>
<p>The existence of miracles.</p>
<p>The resurrection.</p>
<p>That’s just off the top of my head.</p>
<p>If we thought more about it, I’m sure we could add to this list. We Christians believe some odd, impossible things.</p>
<p>And that’s why I find <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_quantum_mechanics" target="_blank">quantum mechanics</a> so comforting. Yes, comforting. Because it is odd and full of impossible things. Now, quantum mechanics  doesn’t prove any of what Christians believe. What quantum physics does is show us the oddness of the world. It is proof that rational, logical thought doesn’t completely explain the universe.</p>
<p>Now some of you are thinking, “Wait a minute, quantum mechanics is based on math which is rational and logical.” And you are right (At least I think you are. The math required to understand quantum mechanics is well beyond my abilities. I believe have to believe physicists when they tell me that quantum mechanics is based and supported by math.)</p>
<p>What I am talking about is the sort of rational, logical processes that allow us to think our way into a subject and understand it. You can’t think your way into quantum mechanics. It is simply too much at odds with the way the world that we know works.</p>
<p>I’m no physicist. but I find quantum physics fascinating.</p>
<p>Light can be both a wave and a particle.</p>
<p>A particle doesn’t exist in a particular location in space and time until it is observed.</p>
<p>We cannot know precisely both the location of a particle and its direction of motion at the same time.</p>
<p>The physical properties of a “thing” don’t exist until they are measured.</p>
<p>In the quantum world, milk can unspill and eggs unbreak.</p>
<p>And of course <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat" target="_blank">Schrodinger’s Cat</a>.</p>
<p>That is just odd. Impossible. Not logical. Not rational. And yet it’s true.</p>
<p>To quote British scientist <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._S._Haldane" target="_blank">J.B.S.Haldane</a>, “Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we <em>can</em> suppose.” #</p>
<p>None of this proves Christianity, but it does undercut the argument that science is rational and Christianity isn’t.</p>
<p>We don’t “think” our way into quantum mechanics and we don’t “think” our way into faith. To be sure, we have to think and think hard about both. But thinking alone won’t do the job. At some point we have to do the work required to experience and understand both faith and physics. To truly understand, either quantum mechanics or Christianity, we have to enter into the practices, learn the disciplines of both.</p>
<p>The oddness of the universe makes the oddness of Christianity more believable. Physics doesn’t prove Christianity. But what quantum mechanics and Christianity both want to tell us is that the world isn’t exactly as it seems. It’s much, much more peculiar and much, much more wonderful than it seems.</p>
<p># When Haldane lived the word “queer” meant odd or peculiar and was not a reference to one’s sexual orientation. Sometimes <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._S._Haldane" target="_blank">this quote</a> is attributed to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Stanley_Eddington" target="_blank">Arthur Eddington</a>.</p>
<p>Here is a <a href="http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/watch/2010/01/29/stephen-colbert-interview-montclair-kimberley-academy" target="_blank">link to a video</a> of a conversation between Stephen Colbert (out of character) and Neil DeGrasse Tyson. It’s a bit long, 84 minutes, but well worth your time. It’s funny, smart and informative.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Cross posted at<a title="presbyterian bloggers" href="http://pcusablog.blogspot.com/2011/12/physics-and-faith.html" target="_blank"> Presbyterian Bloggers</a></p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/christianity/'>Christianity</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/science-and-religion/'>Science and Religion</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/jbs-haldane/'>JBS Haldane</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/neil-degrasse-tyson/'>Neil DeGrasse Tyson</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/science-and-religion-quantum-mechanics/'>science and religion. quantum mechanics</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2102/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2102&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Advent 2011</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/advent-2011/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/advent-2011/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2011 06:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[advent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[true north campus ministry]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Every year I post a variety of  Advent resources at the True North Campus Ministry web site. If you are interested you can find them here.    A Blessed Advent to you. Filed under: Christianity Tagged: advent, true north campus ministry<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2087&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Advent2007candlelight.JPG"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured" title="Lighting Advent candles on Christmas Eve at Ca..." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Advent2007candlelight.JPG/300px-Advent2007candlelight.JPG" alt="Lighting Advent candles on Christmas Eve at Ca..." width="300" height="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image via Wikipedia</p></div>
<p>Every year I post a variety of  Advent resources at the True North Campus Ministry web site. If you are interested you can find them <a title="advent, true north" href="http://truenorthonline.org/2011/11/27/advent-resources-2011/" target="_blank">here</a>.    A Blessed Advent to you.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/christianity/'>Christianity</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/advent/'>advent</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/true-north-campus-ministry/'>true north campus ministry</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2087/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2087&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<media:title type="html">Lighting Advent candles on Christmas Eve at Ca...</media:title>
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		<title>Turkeys, Turkeys, Turkeys</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/25/turkeys-turkeys-turkeys/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/25/turkeys-turkeys-turkeys/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Animals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joe Hutto]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wild Turkey]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Since turkeys figured prominently in many of our meals yesterday (and will figure in many meals in the days to come), it seemed like a good idea to spend some time today celebrating the wild turkey. You might have seen the PBS Nature program &#8220;My Life as a Turkey&#8221; last week. If you missed it, I commend [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2059&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="mceTemp mceIEcenter">
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<dt class="wp-caption-dt"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Meleagris_gallopavo_Wild_Turkey.jpg"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured " title="Meleagris gallopavo (Wild Turkey)" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Meleagris_gallopavo_Wild_Turkey.jpg/300px-Meleagris_gallopavo_Wild_Turkey.jpg" alt="Meleagris gallopavo (Wild Turkey)" width="300" height="314" /></a></dt>
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</div>
<p>Since turkeys figured prominently in many of our meals yesterday (and will figure in many meals in the days to come), it seemed like a good idea to spend some time today celebrating the wild turkey. You might have seen the <a title="nature pbs" href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/" target="_blank">PBS Nature</a> program &#8220;My Life as a Turkey&#8221; last week. If you missed it, I commend it for your viewing. (You can watch it<a title="my life as a turkey episode" href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/my-life-as-a-turkey/full-episode/7378/" target="_blank"> here</a>.)</p>
<p>Today I&#8217;m sharing some &#8220;fun facts&#8221; about turkeys from the &#8220;My Life as a Turkey&#8221; site.</p>
<p>There are five subspecies of Wild Turkey in North America.</p>
<p>Male turkey&#8217;s weigh between 11 and 25 pounds, females, 5-12 pounds.</p>
<p>Turkeys can run up to 25 mph and fly at 55 mph.</p>
<p>A turkey has 5000-6000 feathers. (give or take).</p>
<p>Turkeys can make at least 30 different calls.  In the Nature episode,  Joe Hutto remarks about the extent of a Turkeys vocabulary.</p>
<p>The North American Turkey was quite the world traveler. Aztec turkeys were taken to Europe by the Spanish conquistadors. These turkeys became very popular throughout Europe. English colonists brought those turkeys with them to America. You can find out more about this, <a title="domesticating turkeys" href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/my-life-as-a-turkey/domesticating-the-turkey/7376/" target="_blank">here</a>.</p>
<p>Enjoy two short clips from &#8220;My Life as a Turkey&#8221;</p>
<p><a title="a new mother" href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/my-life-as-a-turkey/video-a-new-mother/7289/" target="_blank">A New Mother</a></p>
<p><a title="a grasshopper run" href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/my-life-as-a-turkey/video-a-grasshopper-run/7286/" target="_blank">grasshopper run</a></p>
<p>To write about turkeys around Thanksgiving is obvious and even cliché. But spending some time thinking about turkeys also reminded me how often I don&#8217;t look, really look at what is around me. I am surrounded by fascinating, complex beings of all sorts who I take for granted- if I notice them.</p>
<p>To end: here is a quote from Calvin (and Hobbes)</p>
<p><strong>Calvin</strong>:     Wow, it really snowed last night! Isn&#8217;t it wonderful?<br />
<strong>Hobbes</strong>:   Everything familiar has disappeared! The world looks brand-new!<br />
<strong>Calvin</strong>:     A new year, a fresh clean start!<br />
<strong>Hobbes</strong>:   It&#8217;s like having a big white sheet of paper to draw on!<br />
<strong>Calvin</strong>:     A day full of possibilities. It&#8217;s a magical world, Hobbes, ol&#8217; buddy&#8230; Let&#8217;s go exploring.</p>
<p>(Calvin&#8217;s last statement in the final installment of Calvin and Hobbes)</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/category/animals/'>Animals</a> Tagged: <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/joe-hutto/'>Joe Hutto</a>, <a href='http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/tag/wild-turkey/'>Wild Turkey</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2059/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2059&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Our Faith and God&#8217;s Faithfulness</title>
		<link>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/our-faith-and-gods-faithfulness/</link>
		<comments>http://conversationinfaith.wordpress.com/2011/11/18/our-faith-and-gods-faithfulness/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 23:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christian faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Spirit]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jurgen Moltmann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Source of Life]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;m reading Jurgen Moltmann&#8217;s The Source of Life: The Holy Spirit and the Theology of Life slowly, which is the best way for me to read Moltmann. In his chapter, &#8220;Born Again to a Living Hope&#8221; he asks the question, &#8220;Can the faith which is grounded in a birth to new life ever be lost [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=conversationinfaith.wordpress.com&amp;blog=2647771&amp;post=2054&amp;subd=conversationinfaith&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<div class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 154px"><a href="http://commons.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Folio_79r_-_Pentecostes.jpg"><img class="zemanta-img-inserted zemanta-img-configured  " title="The Descent of the Holy Spirit in a 15th centu..." src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Folio_79r_-_Pentecostes.jpg/300px-Folio_79r_-_Pentecostes.jpg" alt="The Descent of the Holy Spirit in a 15th centu..." width="144" height="211" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Image via Wikipedia</p></div>
<p>I&#8217;m reading Jurgen Moltmann&#8217;s <em>The Source of Life: The Holy Spirit and the Theology of Life </em>slowly, which is the best way for me to read Moltmann. In his chapter, &#8220;Born Again to a Living Hope&#8221; he asks the question, &#8220;Can the faith which is grounded in a birth to new life <em>ever be lost </em>or not? Is the assurance of faith also an assurance that we will remain and endure to the end, in spite of all the obstacles?&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is Moltmann&#8217;s answer:</p>
<blockquote><p>This question was often discussed in times of Christian persecution, for torture often forced Christians to abjure their faith. Who is free of the fear of becoming weak and falling in such circumstances?  The answer given by Reformed theology is that true faith can never be lost.  Because the birth to new life comes from the Holy Spirit, it is held fast in the faithfulness of God, and never forsakes believers. If it is the new birth to eternal life, then this birth itself is eternal and indestructible. As the power of the resurrection, the Holy Spirit is stronger than death and the terrors and fears of death. The certainty of remaining in faith and not falling is not based on the steadfastness of believers&#8217; souls. It is grounded on God&#8217;s faithfulness to those he has called. &#8216;He will sustain you to the end&#8217; (I Cor 1.8,9).</p>
<p>Luke&#8217;s Gospel tells how Peter, &#8216;the rock of the church&#8217;, denied Jesus three times after he had been arrested, and yet did not lost his faith, for the Lord said; &#8216;Simon, Simon, Satan demanded to have you that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail&#8217; (22.31f.). Faith is kept safe in Christ&#8217;s intercession, even if believers become weak and fall, like other people. To know this is a great consolation. Finally, the Holy Spirit as the beginning of eternal life remains eternally with those who are his, whether they know it and feel it or not. The Holy Spirit &#8216;seals&#8217; God&#8217;s children for the day of redemption. These three statements are not descriptions of the steadfastness of believers. They are declarations about God&#8217;s faithfulness and his reliability. They are not a reason for self-assurance, but they are a reason for trust in God: even if I am lost to myself, I am never lost to the faithful God. Even if I give myself up, God never gives me up.                                                                                                                                                   Moltmann, <em>The Source of Life, </em>(32-33)</p></blockquote>
<p>This is very, very good news.</p>
<p>In times when our faith wears thin and is frayed around the edges, even in times when our faith cannot hold and tears we can trust in God&#8217;s faithfulness to us- whether we know it or not. We can trust that things are all right, that we are all right, even when it does not seem possible.</p>
<p>Faith isn&#8217;t something we &#8220;do&#8221;.  Worship, prayer, Bible reading, acts of mercy; these are  things that we &#8220;do&#8221; and they are all good things. These are things that can nurture faith. We should intentionally nurture our faith (and help others nurture their faith). But sometimes, sometimes, we simply can&#8217;t &#8220;do&#8221; anything.</p>
<p>In those times it is good to know that God keeps our faith safe for us. Through Christ&#8217;s intercession and the intercession and care of our brothers and sisters in the faith, when our faith is threadbare and frayed, even when our faith tears and does not hold, God is still present.</p>
<p>&#8220;[E]ven if I am lost to myself, I am never lost to the faithful God, Even if I give myself up, God never gives me up&#8221;</p>
<p>Good news!  Hallelujah!</p>
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